Eaves Drop on This Conversation

Okay, this comment is too good. I have to engage. So, I will share his writing bit by bit (in purple) and respond in black. 🙂 If you missed my post, check it out here. This comment was in response to that piece.

I’m not sure you are hitting the mark here, I am a 39-year-old man and I actually take offense to some of the things that you have written. Seems that you have needs, much like we men, and it seems your needs are so strong that you are willing to tell men to go seek therapy because we are not meeting your needs in the way YOU need them met.

First of all, if you take offense here, then I remind us all the “Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz and I say that perhaps we should not take anything personally. I did not intend to offend, it is me, sharing from my life, and people I know. It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with you.

Secondly, I am saying that IF you are a man who WANTS a relationship with a woman, and you are having a hard time committing, get help. There is nothing wrong with seeking out support in the way of counseling, or therapy; it’s very helpful.

We, all of us, have our childhood wounds and sometimes, when not dealt with, they can prevent us from experiencing intimacy with others, even when we want it. I do know men who want intimate relationships AND can’t seem to have them due to issues. I’m saying, deal with it! You can! IF you want that. I am not saying every man SHOULD want to show up for women with the 3 Ps. I am saying that many of my women friends want that. Just FYI. Take it or leave it.
Truth be told it’s not because we were all raised by single mothers (which is more a problem for the next generation) or overbearing mothers. I will speak only for myself. I was raised by parents that are still together and 45 years into their mess of a relationship.

I know you weren’t all raised by single mothers or overbearing mothers. STILL, that is something my friends and I talk about. It has come up in conversation. I am not saying it’s true. I am saying women wonder! So, okay, your parents were together and to you, their relationship was a mess. No doubt, it caused some feelings for you and perhaps some patterns or ways of being.

I witnessed most all of my friends and peers parents married and not at all happy. I’ve tried relationships on and what I hear over and over is that is hard work, it takes effort, etc. I’m down with that, I survived child abuse, addictions, I’ve been in mens work for 15 years and even facilitate a group for college students. So I’m not afraid of work, I actually love inner work.

I don’t think relationships have to be that hard. Yes, you have to work through things. No, it doesn’t have to be that HARD.

Sometimes we avoid doing the real, down and dirty work of relationships because we are so busy in our men’s groups or workshops. Sometimes, that is the way we avoid.

My experience is that as a male I have different ways of being in this world, I roam a little farther than females typically, I play harder typically, I don’t have the need to go to work and go home and nest as I have been asked to do by past partners. I don’t feel a drive to build something so deep and intertwined as our parents did. That feels claustrophobic to me and I don’t feel like it is for me, I feel like it is to keep my women feeling “safe”, but at my own expense.

If you feel like you have to sacrifice to keep your partner feeling, “safe” and you say that you don’t feel like nesting or being in an “intertwined” relationship is for you, then, great. None of what I wrote, then, applies to you. No need to take offense. 🙂

You say you are not asking that much from us… but you are asking more than we are wired or care to give then you say it is our faults and that we have peter pan syndrome…

Is this true? If women want you to claim your love for them (provided you feel love for them) and protect and provide (which is open to interpretation, what that looks like is different for everyone) and you, you are saying, in a big generalization, as a man, that men are not wired for that, and do not care to give that. Wow!

Interesting…I wonder if that is true? I do think, from my experience, that some men do want to provide, protect and proclaim love for their partner. If you don’t, then, again, perhaps the article I wrote doesn’t apply to you, as I am talking about men who want to be in intimate partnerships with women. Or, you can find a woman who doesn’t want to nest, marry, or have children. And that’s great. There are those women. I am talking about me and my friends who want to be met by men in a powerful way and have them be capable of being intimate and doing the work of relationship. I am not saying all women want marriage and babies.

So again speaking for myself, to live a life of freedom where “I” feel in “MY” power, where I feel connected to my source and truth or sacrifice that so I can attempt to make a relationship work according to the rules that were hear long before I was and perhaps aggravated by Walt Disney princess syndrome… no brainer, and no I will not seek therapy so that I can fit into a lonely single womens ideals of what SHE wants to have happen in her life.

Great. You sound very clear about where you stand. 🙂 That’s wonderful. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do, ever. If, however, you were to meet a woman that you loved and wanted to partner with for an extended period of time, and you found that it was hard for you, perhaps, then, you might seek couples therapy together, to heal whatever is in the way of you two co-creating a life together. Only if you want that, though. 🙂 Perhaps, then, if you loved her, you would want to seek support, and not because she is lonely, and YES, because of what SHE wants to have happen in her life, because you love her and are on board and want to support her dreams, too.

Even looking at the last few generations, the men went to work and the women raised the family.. you think that is not because this is not what men want? to be home raising families? some men yes, but for the most part we are wired differently and we want different things. It could be as simple as consistent sex and we don’t want to be ever looking for it so we decide to take on monogamy so we don’t have to constantly be seeking our next lover. (this is to me as extreme as calling men out for having peter pan syndrome) just to make a point.

Yes, okay, I studied Anthropology and psychology, I have two minors, one in each. Yes, there is evidence that men are wired differently. Are we not evolving? Do you really want such different things? If you just want consistent sex, you can have that. I am sure. Just not with me. 😉

The peter pan thing… we happened upon this existence, born into flesh and raised to cut most of ourselves off due to parents/ peers/ society telling us what it is to be a good citizen, a good person…etc. who is to say how we are “supposed” to live our lives here? YOU? I think not.

Of course not. I am not telling anyone how they are “supposed” to live their lives. That’s silly. I am sharing how we women, my friends and I, SOME of us, want to live our lives and what we talk about. What we desire. You could be thanking me. I simply let you in, a little. That’s all. 🙂

we are supposed to couple with someone else? we are supposed to “build” lives with someone else? we are as free as we desire to be as long as we can look beyond the programing.

No, we are not “supposed” to do anything, again.

Even if you could do it all alone, would you really want to? Even if it’s not a monogamous relationship where you get all nesty and intertwined, don’t you want to build with others, in community, and share resources and relate deeply?
I do feel a little for you ladys from time to time, it must be frustrating having a yearn so deep for connection and knowing that the reality is that men don’t need that as much as you, we don’t feel that inner pull.

I’m gonna have to go for it a bit here with you. Please forgive me. I love you. 🙂 The word, “Lady” from Wikipedia:

“The word lady is a polite term for a woman, specifically the female equivalent to, or spouse of, a lord or gentleman, and in many contexts a term for any adult woman. Once relating specifically to women of high social class or status, over the last 300 years it has spread to embrace all adult women, though in some contexts may still be used to evoke a concept of “ladylike” standards of behaviour.”

I just find it interesting, your choice of words, in this part. You do “feel a little” for we “Ladies.” Lady was originally a word, used to refer to women as a spouse, and, any lady, of course, was expected to meet “ladylike” standards. It’s funny, actually, for in my Multicultural Anthropological studies, we had a whole day on the derogatory origination of the term, “lady.” You do feel so sorry for we ladies and all our needs. So frustrated we must be to realize we are so un-needed.

Are you for real?! Who birthed you, anyway?

This rabbit hole is deep, as in our history women have been so marginalized. You have to understand, we are coming into balance, claiming our power, taking our rightful place as equal partners. Yet, we come from a past of being oppressed, repressed and abused. There is a balance here to be found, between being a lady, or a whore, or a house-wife, or a mother, where we can be honored, loved, celebrated, and cared for.

Just to be clear though, I am into monogamy and I have been in several long-term relationships and am only recently realizing that for me my power is at its peak when I am not in relationship… my connection to community is when I am free to do what I want with who I want and when I want and you are to tell me this is wrong?

No, I am not telling you that is wrong. I hear you. I too feel empowered when NOT in relationship. I enjoy community, freedom, making my own choices, doing my thing. It’s true for many of us, as being in relationship is really where the work happens and growth occurs. We bump up against much more of ourselves, our shadow, our wounds, when we have a constant, close, mirror. Do what you want. I value freedom above anything else, really. Yet, I am asking that men take a look and see if this fits. And, if the shoe fits…

to seek help because the way I feel into my source is not appropriate simply because you are not getting your needs met through my own life experience?
sorry if I offended anyone, but the rules are changing. seems like we are moving to a place that is more honoring the way we are programed to be in this reality as men and women.

Bravo! Yes to moving into a place that is more honoring. Yes to eliminating our programming.

the last note, if I could find the women that let me truly express myself as a man and not need for me to make her feel safe, or the 3 P’s if she could have that feeling by simply standing by my side and I by hers and nothing more, no more expectations. I would gladly take part in a life with her.

So, you want a woman who lets you express yourself? Yes, that’s great. And, you don’t want her to need for you to make her feel safe. Okay, again, fine, you can have that.

It’s the “no expectations” part that gets me. That’s just not realistic. It’s not. If you are going to stand side by side and partner, than you have to be conscious co-creators and have agreements and communication. However, you didn’t say, “co-create” or “partner” those are my words. You said, “take part.” To me, that’s different.

Good luck with finding a woman who is willing to let you be close with zero expectations. We try, but it’s just not realistic. It’s not. If I am going to support you, love you, share with you, open my heart, my home, my body, then I may want some things from you. That is being strong and powerful and real. Yet, you just want to “take part” and I am sure you can find that. I let lots of men “take part’ in life with me, and that doesn’t mean they are my partner.

Seems like you have a lot of expectations about her, including that she have no expectations for you. Typical.